Episode Summary
In this episode of the Seven Figures and Beyond ecommerce podcast, host Greg Shuey interviews Greg Shugar— ecommerce entrepreneur, DTC pioneer, and tariff watchdog—on the massive implications of recent tariff changes, particularly those targeting Chinese imports. Shugar, who built and sold The Tie Bar and now runs Beau Ties of Vermont, shares firsthand insights into how these tariffs—some as high as 145%—are effectively acting as trade embargoes, wreaking havoc on small and mid-sized DTC brands. They discuss real-world strategies for mitigating short- and long-term impact, such as leveraging bonded warehouses, stockpiling under de minimis thresholds, and exploring alternative manufacturing hubs, despite their logistical and relational challenges. Shugar warns of ripple effects reminiscent of COVID-era supply disruptions, predicts inflationary pressure on discretionary retail, and critiques the government’s lack of foresight and support for Made-in-USA brands. The conversation is an urgent wake-up call for e-commerce brands to adapt quickly—or risk collapse.
Key Takeaways
- Tariff Increases Are Severe and Unpredictable: Tariffs on Chinese goods have skyrocketed, in some cases to 145%, creating what Shugar describes as an “effective embargo.” These policy shifts are volatile, changing quickly with no clear long-term roadmap, which is creating chaos for import-reliant DTC brands.
- Shipping and Supply Chain Disruption Is Looming: Many brands are pausing orders, which could lead to COVID-style shipping backlogs, skyrocketing freight costs, and broader inflation in consumer goods when demand surges again.
- Risk Mitigation Isn’t Simple or Cheap: Alternative sourcing sounds good on paper, but moving production to another country—or back to the U.S.—introduces major issues, including quality control, time-consuming onboarding, higher costs, and unreliable tariff predictability.
- De Minimis Loophole Offers Temporary Relief: Until May 2nd, importing goods under $800 in value per shipment can avoid tariffs altogether. Shugar has maximized this window to bring in fabric before penalties return or worsen.
- Government Policy Lacks Strategic Support for SMBs: Shugar argues that if the U.S. truly wanted to support domestic manufacturing, it would have introduced a long-term tariff roadmap, offered factory-building subsidies, or granted tariff exemptions to Made-in-USA brands that rely on imported raw materials—none of which currently exist.
Questions To Ask Yourself
- How vulnerable is our supply chain to sudden tariff increases or political policy shifts?
- Have we clearly mapped out the cost implications of alternative sourcing or local production?
- Are we testing our pricing strategies regularly—or just reacting?
- Do we have messaging ready for customers when external costs force internal change?
- Are we proactively educating our team and customers about macroeconomic shifts that impact our pricing and delivery?
Episode Links
Greg Shuey LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/greg-shuey/
Greg Shugar LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gregshugar/
Beau Ties of Vermont: https://www.beautiesltd.com/
Carrie Amber Intimates: https://www.carrieamber.com/
Episode Transcript
Greg Shuey (00:29.729)
We’re not going to talk about marketing today. So I’m really excited about this conversation. My guest today is Greg Sugar. This man here is a man of many hats. So if you look him up on LinkedIn, you’ll see he’s the owner of Beau Ties of Vermont, an adjunct professor for the College of Business at Florida Atlantic University, and most recently a partner advisor and board member for Carrie Amber Intimates.
It’s probably an understatement to say that he knows quite a bit about business, especially in the direct to consumer space. Today, we’re going to deep dive into tariffs. I know it’s been a hot topic over the last couple of weeks and things are changing so fast. But we do know that these tariffs, especially the tariffs with China back and forth, that they’re going to crush a lot of small brands. And we want to talk about what you should be thinking about in order to survive.
Greg, thanks so much for taking time out of your busy schedule to be with us today.
Greg Shugar (01:31.672)
My pleasure, thanks for inviting me on.
Greg Shuey (01:34.281)
Yeah, Greg’s got a little bit of a cold. So if you catch a cough in there, you know why. So before we dive into the meat of our conversation, could you just take a couple of minutes and share a little bit about your story and how you have gotten to where you are today?
Greg Shugar (01:50.062)
Sure, was I started as an attorney in Chicago for about eight years started a business on the side in 2004 that business was called the tie bar Still around to this day. So in 2004 the the term direct-to-consumer didn’t even exist We yeah, we started a website selling neckties designing and selling our own label neckties
for $15 each, which was, know, value proposition back in the time where value propositions really weren’t a big thing. Before the recession in 2008, there really, there was no demand for that sort of thing. But we went into this luxury category of neck ties and said, let’s try to see if we can replicate a really good quality, good looking tie, but do it for $15. And it kind of took off fairly quickly about a year in.
We had done so well that I was able to quit being a lawyer, thankfully, which I hated, and ran the company full-time along with my wife. We built the company up to about 20 million in sales, starting from the basement in our home and slowly just building it over time. After nine years, we sold it to Private Equity Group. After that, I had a five-year non-compete, so I dabbled in things, but I had to be very careful.
not to violate, but I did start a new betting business in the direct to consumer space, ran that for eight years with a couple of partners. I got in the crowdfunding space, real estate crowdfunding. I started teaching college entrepreneurship, worked with an incubator. But anyway, about six years ago, when my non-compete ended, I bought an old competitor that was much smaller, but also struggling. And I went in, bought it, and kept most
to the team members and we together turned the company around and we’re still doing okay here in 2025 and that’s Bowties at Vermont.
Greg Shuey (03:52.705)
That’s amazing. Very cool.
Greg Shugar (03:55.054)
So, yeah, I would just say the last thing is we’re now, I’m now sort of actively looking to buy businesses with a couple of partnerships that I have. And one of them we actually did buy, Carrie Amber Intimates, it’s a private equity group and I were partners and we purchased this 26 year old company that sells bra, women’s bras, shapewear, sleepwear, incredibly successful company with no e-commerce
Greg Shuey (04:07.332)
cool.
Greg Shugar (04:25.008)
But that’s one of our goals for 2025.
Greg Shuey (04:28.841)
You know, I looked them up yesterday. It looks like are there a bunch of sub brands under it or are those specific product lines?
Greg Shugar (04:36.27)
No, well, we do our own private label. We have licenses with people like Daisy Fuentes, but we sell mostly to TJ Maxx, Ross stores, Burlington Co. Factory, and a whole host of other retailers around the world, actually. Yeah.
Greg Shuey (04:42.145)
cool.
Got it.
Greg Shuey (04:49.569)
Cool. Very cool. Well, you got your hands in a lot of things. You must be a busy, busy man.
Greg Shugar (04:55.682)
I am, I like being busy, so it’s good.
Greg Shuey (04:57.697)
Yep. Cool. Greg, what really impressed me about you is I’ve been following you on LinkedIn over the last couple of years is, as you’re really smart, but as tariffs have started to become a topic of conversation that you have shared a lot of information around tariffs. And so that’s why I wanted to bring you on because it’s something that I don’t understand enough about. And I fear a lot of
smaller businesses that are producing goods in China, they’re scared. don’t quite understand it. They don’t know what to do. And they also know that the game is changing every single day, right? There are new things coming out every day. So how do you build strategy for that? So I’m excited to be able to just share a couple of minutes with you today to kind of go over a couple of points that I’ve put together. Are you ready to jump in?
Greg Shugar (05:53.29)
Yeah, you know what? appreciate your humility because it’s not uncommon to find a lot of people on LinkedIn who give their expert opinions on tariffs even though they have literally nothing to do with retail. So I appreciate that you do that.
Greg Shuey (06:07.733)
Yeah, cool. So let’s just start with the basics. What exactly are these new tariffs and which types of products or categories do you think are going to be most affected?
Greg Shugar (06:22.03)
Okay, there’s, I think of the tariffs, let’s talk about it in a couple different buckets. There’s China and pretty much everyone else. So the everyone else category is a smorgasbord of different tariff rates that went into effect. The math as to why those rates, how they arrived at those rates were done.
completely haphazardly using a math formula that was incorrect, was called retaliatory even though they weren’t. They had more to do with the trade deficits of those countries and generally don’t make a lot of sense. Okay, so those are the tariffs that have this 90 day pause, which you might say, well, good thing. Pause is a good thing, but it’s not because it creates more uncertainty in a world that’s already
uncertain.
So it’s not great. And we’ll talk about that separately. The other part of it is China. So China makes up more than $600 billion of our imports, which is about 14 or 15 % of everything, which is a lot. They are the number one country from whom we import. the next two are like Canada and Mexico, which is significantly significant to mention. Anyway, those tariffs through
just being a total baby, increased from 10 % extra. They were already 25 % in a lot of industries, not all. They were 10 % in January and they went up slowly and then quickly up to 145%, which is why I’ll, yeah, and I might use the word embargo during this conversation because a 145 % tariff is an effective embargo on trade with China.
Greg Shuey (08:05.909)
which is insanity.
Greg Shugar (08:20.054)
So that’s kind of where we are today. I would guess that by time this airs, things could look significantly different, which again is a major problem with this whole thing.
Greg Shuey (08:32.075)
Right. Yep. So a lot of DTC brands produce soft goods and they do so over in China. We’ve got a few clients over here who are producing in Vietnam and some other surrounding areas, which again have sheltered them with this pause for a couple of months, but who knows what that’s to be expected. So when brands say, okay,
You know, I’ve got some containers coming over like what immediate financial or operational impacts should they be expecting?
Greg Shugar (09:10.122)
So this hypothetical their containers are on the water? Yeah, they’re in deep shit. So I am not the expert to describe what to do next. I can share some things that I’ve heard and seen. So.
Greg Shuey (09:15.873)
you
Greg Shuey (09:23.967)
Yeah, maybe even if you’re open to it, share some of the things you’ve been thinking about as well.
Greg Shugar (09:29.88)
Well, but there’s a difference between do you have something on the water or do you not? So I’m in the, do not camp. When you do have it, I’ve read solutions like anything from having them land at a bonded warehouse where you only pay tariff once you sell it and then you take it from the bonded warehouse. But there are so many associated costs that would go with that. So I don’t know enough about it to speak on it. There are people that are sending it to different countries with no tariff rates.
Greg Shuey (09:34.389)
Fair enough. Yeah.
Greg Shuey (09:45.974)
Hmm.
Greg Shuey (09:54.891)
Yeah. Yep.
Greg Shugar (10:00.016)
and they’re going to hold it there, pay a warehouse cost, of course. And once the tariffs are figured out, have it shipped from that country here. Canada is one of them, although I think Canada requires some paperwork ahead of time. So it’s not something you just like make a quick phone call for. I’ve read Dominican Republic is one to consider as well. But again, you’ll have warehouse costs and now increased shipping costs because you’re shipping. There’s a stop right along the way instead of direct to America.
Greg Shuey (10:03.713)
Mmm.
Greg Shuey (10:08.499)
interesting.
Greg Shuey (10:18.209)
Hmm.
Greg Shugar (10:29.73)
you’re stopping in Dominican Republic or another country. So that’s those people who have stuff on the water. They are in really tough shape. I don’t envy them. Then there’s companies like me who have basically put a hold on ordering anything. And with that come a lot of problems. And I’m happy to go through them with you. I will tell you the one that I think we’re not talking about enough, but we will.
Greg Shuey (10:32.619)
Okay. Yeah.
Greg Shugar (10:55.574)
is the problem that we experienced during COVID. So when COVID shut down the world, it shut down orders, it shut down shipping. And as a result, once everything resumed, there was a backlog of orders and a backlog of ships and airplanes and everything else bringing the stuff over. As a result, shipping rates, cargo rates shot through the roof. I believe they increased somewhere around 1,000%.
Greg Shuey (11:21.377)
Yeah, that number sounds right.
Greg Shugar (11:23.2)
Yes, and so that number of
course, shot up the price, the landed price of the goods, which created inflation. We never really talk about inflation being created by this because it’s much easier to blame politicians and to talk about printing money. And I do think printing money definitely played a role in that too. But the backlog that did itself during COVID was a huge contributor to it. That’s why I mention it now, because we are about to experience
Greg Shuey (11:38.305)
Sure.
Greg Shugar (11:55.552)
It’s the same thing. People are not ordering.
Greg Shuey (11:57.473)
hadn’t even crossed my mind that that would actually happen from this.
Greg Shugar (12:02.004)
Yes, it is a topic that’s not talked about. There’s a lot of topics that I’ve identified that we’re not talking about, and this is going to be one of them. So when you factor in whatever the settled tariff is on China, assuming it’s settled, you factor that in plus the cost of shipping, which is going to go up quite a bit. And sometimes the factories take a little liberty in pricing when there’s a huge demand because they now hold the cards. You’re talking about significant cost increases, which inevitably
Greg Shuey (12:10.177)
That’s great.
Greg Shuey (12:25.046)
Yeah.
Greg Shugar (12:31.888)
will create higher prices at the retailer. yeah, so we, guess to answer your question, which I may not have so far.
Greg Shuey (12:36.31)
Hmm.
Greg Shugar (12:41.74)
We’re putting a hold on everything. But having said that, because I’m so in tune with both politics and tariffs, I was well aware of this issue. And back in January, I ordered three and a half times the amount that I normally order right before Chinese New Year. And I have even stocked out since. So there is the tariff, yes, right now, but the de minimis loophole of $800 or less remains open till May 2nd. So I spent the entire month of April shipping
Greg Shuey (12:57.537)
Good for you.
Greg Shugar (13:11.694)
lot of goods under the loophole to myself. And once May 2nd closes, I have a lot of fabric on stock, which in stock, which is very important to us. We are made in America company, and we can talk about that for a second, but we import fabrics from overseas. So I’m doing the best I can to buy it at a discount. Like even though it’s not really at a discount, but the discount is that it’s tariff free under the de minimis loophole until then. I know that not only will the
Greg Shuey (13:14.846)
interesting.
Greg Shugar (13:41.606)
the 25 % tariff be back, but probably something higher. So that’s what I would have recommended. By the time you hear this, I’m not sure that that will be available to anyone listening, but I think using that de minimis loophole to the extent you can is a big help for any company trying to get things in from China between now and May 2nd.
Greg Shuey (14:00.001)
I love that. Thank you for sharing that. That’s really smart. Like you were ahead of the game. Congratulations. So how should brands be thinking about their pricing strategy? So I’ve, I’ve seen some brands say, you know, buy now before we raise prices next week. I’ve seen some brands say we’re just adjusting prices now because we’re going to have to use that cash to
Greg Shugar (14:04.984)
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Greg Shuey (14:27.649)
buy new inventory at higher rates. Like how should they be thinking about this? And then one of the questions that I have and even my clients have brought to me and I’m like, I’m not a tariff guy is should they be splitting these costs? Should they eat some of it? Should they be passing some of it onto the consumer? Like what kind of recommendations do you have there?
Greg Shugar (14:33.955)
Yeah.
Greg Shugar (14:52.654)
So I’ll answer the last part first, then I’ll answer the other part. So back in 2018, when the original Trump 25 % tariff went on with China, a lot of brands or importers talked to their suppliers and said, can you help me with this? Can you me maybe a discount? And some of the factories, including my own, did discount. They started changing the prices to a lower amount.
to help deal with the increase in price. Some of the costs were included, were passed along to consumers. Again, something I think contributed to inflation. I realized the tariffs went into effect in 2018 and we saw inflation three years later, but I don’t think it did any favors to include a 25 % tariff on Chinese goods when they were, and pretty much they were across the board with some exceptions. Whereas in the old days, was very much dependent upon like what your product.
was, so for example, our silk tariff used to be 7.2 % and shot up to 25. So you can see the increase. But anyway, so you always want to negotiate with the suppliers. I will tell you now that Chinese suppliers have been emboldened by their government and have told many of us, we’re not giving you any discounts. I mean, A, they’re not going to cover 145%. We know that.
Greg Shuey (16:09.771)
Hmm.
Yeah.
Greg Shugar (16:13.528)
They’re not going to cover anything. When the 10 % came along in January of this year, the factories were helpful for sure. A lot of them split the costs with their brands. At 20%, they said, you know what? We can’t afford to split. If you don’t know, Chinese factory margins are razor thin. That’s why they always require such high minimums and such large orders, because they work in volume.
Greg Shuey (16:34.475)
Hmm.
Greg Shugar (16:41.454)
So they have these razor thin margins that they can’t afford to split a 20 % tariff. So many of them said, sorry, I can’t help you any further. As it grew to 54%, 125%, 145%, they’re all saying, no, we’re not helping you. We’re gonna have to try to figure something out. I’ve had meetings with my factory, we’re working on some ideas. So that’s not gonna, so that’s the last part of your question. The other part is.
pricing strategies. I’ve talked to peers, there are people who say, you know, now through April 30th is our old pricing and starting on May 1st is our new pricing. I’ve heard that all those email campaigns and marketing campaigns have gone extremely well. However, don’t kid yourself, they’re pulling those sales forward. Those sales that they’re, they’re, they’re making sales to people that are not going to buy in the near future afterwards. So I’d love to hear.
Greg Shuey (17:27.136)
Mm-hmm.
Greg Shuey (17:31.393)
Sure.
Greg Shugar (17:39.864)
how they perform after the fact. Probably not well. I normally am of the theory also that when you raise prices, you don’t talk to customers about it. You just kind of do it quietly. Maybe you even do it slowly. That’s what I’ve been doing so far. We’ve raised prices a little bit, but not much and only on a couple products. We’re just doing some experimenting. But because I’ve pretty much had all my fabric here under, let’s call it the old price.
There’s no reason for me to raise prices really yet. Again, I’m just experimenting. want to see what kind of reaction some customers are giving. as far as like the right strategy, I mean, it kind of depends on what tariff you’re working with. If you’re working with a 10 % tariff that’s currently in effect from, let’s say, Europe, that might be the thing that you eat or maybe you write a little letter or personally, I just don’t think you raise prices. I don’t think customers…
pays attention, as close attention to your pricing as you think they do. And so if you’re talking about, let’s call it a 5 % increase on your price, I don’t know, I don’t really think you mention it. Maybe, you know, one of the common strategies also is to take your best selling items and increase those prices. Because you know they’re probably gonna still sell. And like anything else, you experiment, you you play with it, you could literally do an A-B test, or I don’t.
Greg Shuey (18:39.147)
Right.
Greg Shugar (19:03.01)
get that sophisticated. I just will do a week and I’ll do a week over week study versus a year over year study and I’ll see like was there any significant change and you know those are some of the strategies I think that people
Greg Shuey (19:16.619)
Yeah, those are some really great recommendations for sure. I appreciate those. so if a brand has just been kind of waiting and now they realize they’re in deep trouble, right? Their supply chains at risk. what would you say the first two or three steps are that they should take? I know we’ve already probably talked about some of these things, but maybe you could prioritize them for us.
Greg Shugar (19:42.434)
Well, I mean, like, unfortunately, you, here’s the problem. So the first reaction is, we’ll see if you can make it and get it made in the US. A lot of times it’s not an option. I’m a great example of it. There are no silk fabric factories in the United States. None. I have no option. So for me, I also can say, what about cotton? They make that in the US. I can maybe make some ties out of cotton. Yes, except cotton is not a preferred.
Greg Shuey (19:50.038)
Right.
Greg Shugar (20:11.672)
fabric, sometimes it works nicely for ties and some people, some tie guys will have that in their wardrobe, but it’s not your preferred fabric. that’s not an option. So then I think, okay, well, let me go to another country. Well, in my case, silk jacquard is made predominantly by China. Italy makes some, although a lot of what Italy does now is buys fabric from overseas and prints it in Italy.
Greg Shuey (20:37.76)
Hmm.
Greg Shugar (20:39.141)
But they will still do some, they’ll buy raw silk from China as well, but they’ll loom it in Italy. So that’s an option. It’s more expensive, of course, right? So now that changes your prices. Plus there’s a 10 % tariff on Italy. Plus when the pause ends, it moves up to 20%, assuming everything at this point goes as planned, right? So now you’re talking about really increased expenses. So that for me is an option. So you look for another country, but you have other obstacles. And then of course, there’s the
Greg Shuey (20:46.497)
Yeah. Yeah.
Greg Shugar (21:08.016)
The last obstacle is you find a totally new factory that you’ve never worked with before in a different country. And then all of sudden, the president wakes up one day and says, you know what? I don’t like them either. And he hits them with a 60 % tariff. Not to mention the poor. And this point never gets discussed enough in mainstream media. It is so difficult to change factories.
Greg Shuey (21:22.369)
Yep.
Greg Shuey (21:32.331)
Right.
Greg Shugar (21:32.384)
I can’t even begin to tell you the benefits of working with a factory that you’ve been working with for years. The well-oiled machine that you’ve created, the understanding of language, the cadence, the understanding of when things are needed. When someone says, want this to look a certain way, what you mean by that can be very subjective. But when you’ve worked with a factory for so long, they have a good understanding of what you’re talking about. The trust involved, the relationship. I have an incredible relationship
Greg Shuey (21:38.315)
Mm-hmm.
Greg Shuey (21:56.992)
Yeah.
Greg Shugar (22:02.288)
relationship with my factory. We literally talk about our family when we hop on a WeChat phone call. So like, I mean, you can’t just replicate that. Not to mention the quality control that you went through to get to where you are. It’s not like a factory just churns out the same product every time. I don’t know what industry. There’s different versions of the product and the one that you want, you may not always want the best because the best might be the most expensive. The best might not be what your customer
Greg Shuey (22:07.681)
That’s cool.
Greg Shugar (22:32.208)
wants anyway, you might be selling a value product. So even getting to that point of understanding the quality of what you want, that takes time, that takes trial and error, and frankly, it costs money. So to start from scratch with a totally new factory on the other side of the world, oh my god, like you may have to go out there, that’s a huge expense, and you may not even find what you’re looking for. you know…
You say, what do you do to mitigate the risk? These are the things, but it’s just not so easy. And the belief that it is, is extremely ignorant. It is extremely, comes from a place of someone who’s never done it themselves. And so I just can’t stress enough how hard it is to find another factory. But among the things that you’re trying to mitigate risk, I suppose that’s gotta be one of them.
Greg Shuey (23:02.272)
Yeah.
Greg Shugar (23:20.482)
because you either take the chance with the new factory or you go out of business, right? And so between those two choices, I guess you give it a chance.
Greg Shuey (23:27.487)
Yeah, yeah. Well, that leads us into my next question like really well. Like I mentioned earlier that some of my clients have shifted manufacturing to Vietnam. Like that’s probably changing from country to country is difficult. And then finding, you know, the right manufacturer in that company is another layer of difficulty that maybe some brands don’t want to take on. Do you see any other countries outside of China?
being viable alternatives right now for companies like yours or other companies that manufacture soft goods.
Greg Shugar (24:01.546)
Yeah, it just depends on the industry. Some countries are better at producing certain things than others, possibly because they can grow.
Greg Shuey (24:04.598)
Yeah.
Greg Shugar (24:10.968)
let’s call it, know, like silk gets grown in India as well. So for us, India might be the most likely backup to where we are, although they don’t come close to the Chinese silk. The Chinese silk’s been around, like I’m not a big historian, but it’s something like five to 6,000 years that Chinese have been making silk. So it depends on the country, depends on the product as far as like which country it is.
Greg Shuey (24:24.648)
thing.
Greg Shuey (24:28.577)
Hmm.
Greg Shugar (24:37.574)
And it also depends on how long they’ve been doing it. Some of these countries just got into it. Because there was already manufacturing moving away from China. Some of these countries said, we want to take a stab at this. And so they started creating factories. Bangladesh, for example, does a lot of apparel. They do a lot of textiles, a lot of apparel. And they were not good at first. And they’ve now gotten better. Although they still struggle with labor issues there. There’s a lot of questionable labor.
Greg Shuey (24:43.356)
interesting.
Yeah.
Greg Shuey (25:06.144)
Hmm… Yeah.
Greg Shugar (25:06.516)
things that go on in Bangladesh. not knowledgeable enough to share them all. But so you have to do that as well. By the way, like, you know, I visited my factory in China several times. Like you go out there, you want to make sure everything’s on the up and up. I will tell you, having been in some cut and sew or factories here in the United States, they’re not exactly the cleanest places. I’ve been in some that have no air conditioning. And we’re talking about the United States. So when people talk about like China, like I think we
Greg Shuey (25:32.097)
Yeah.
Greg Shugar (25:36.352)
we should also be looking at the US as well. Every factory I’ve ever been in China is a really nice facility. Their employees are treated well. They’re paid a living wage. Whatever that number is, is a living wage. yeah, it’s not a lot of money. It’s sad. we are sort of in a certain order of the world. A lot of them live in the city where the factory is. They live in dorm-style situations.
I mean, that’s the culture. can’t, I’m not going to be able to change it. And, you know, we can get into this discussion about, we move everything to the main USA and what the benefits are and all that, but let’s be honest, we’re not like the greatest about things like this either. Our minimum wage is still, I don’t know, eight bucks.
Greg Shuey (26:21.953)
It’s awful, yeah.
Greg Shugar (26:22.826)
We have so many people that live in poverty. We’re not exactly the best at this stuff either. And so I can’t solve all the world’s problems, but there’s no, I have never experienced anything like child labor in China. And meanwhile, we have child labor laws that are trying to be overturned in Florida and Arkansas. So I think we have to be sort of careful in where we judge other countries. I’m a bit off on a tangent. So the answer is it depends on your product.
Greg Shuey (26:30.368)
Yeah.
Greg Shuey (26:43.937)
Wow.
Greg Shugar (26:52.741)
as far as which country to go to.
Greg Shuey (26:53.174)
Yeah.
Okay, nice, perfect. I know we’re coming up on time, so maybe just this last question here. Long term, if we’re thinking long term, do you see tariffs as a temporary disruption or do you see it more or less as a catalyst for bigger shifts in the e-commerce supply chain and just other things that brands are going through right now?
Greg Shugar (27:25.344)
It’s just so hard to answer these questions with all the uncertainty of where we are with the tariffs. Obviously, if these tariffs of significant numbers remain in place, you’re talking about inflation that’s permanent.
Greg Shuey (27:32.47)
Yeah.
Greg Shuey (27:42.783)
Right, it’s gonna be ugly.
Greg Shugar (27:43.2)
Right. If the the tariff, if the tariffs are so long as the tariffs are in place, so are high prices. So when you talk about a bigger shift in e-commerce, it’s just going to be a bigger shift in retail, because with higher prices comes less money for non-essential goods. And so you’re going to see less spending by people on things like apparel and these non-essentials.
Greg Shuey (27:56.107)
Yeah.
Greg Shugar (28:12.042)
So there will be a permanent shift and you’re probably going to see a lot of brands go out of business. And you’re just going to see fewer of these consumer goods sold. This discretionary spending type of consumer goods. You’re just going to see fewer sold because the price of everything is going to go up. Of course it is. Even if the brand said, you know what, we’re going to eat everything ourselves. What the hell? Well, same price as for everybody. Well, what does that mean? Salaries can’t go up.
Greg Shuey (28:36.523)
Mm-hmm.
Greg Shugar (28:41.936)
businesses can’t go up, investment in the future can’t go up. They don’t have any extra money to do all these things. So when that happens to the employees who aren’t making as much money and all that other stuff, well then they’re not going to spend as much money. And that’s going to trickle into the general broader economy.
Greg Shuey (28:45.409)
Yep.
Greg Shugar (29:00.726)
So this is like a this is a major issue. It’s not just e-commerce. It’s all of retail that’s going to be affected. And you call it temporary disruption. I hope you’re right. But there’s no guarantee that this is a temporary disruption. This could be a permanent disruption. And who knows that the next president, whomever he or she may be, may keep this in place. So this is a major problem. And let’s be clear. This was really all about Made in America. And of course, we get mixed messages from the White House on whether this is really about building more
Greg Shuey (29:05.891)
of retail.
Greg Shuey (29:13.451)
Yeah.
Greg Shugar (29:30.72)
made in America. But if it was, they would have rolled it out differently. They’d tell brands, listen, we’re going to implement these big tariffs coming in like three or four years. So you guys better start looking for other places to go. And by the way, here’s a tariff map that was not going to change. So you know every country. If you want to build a factory in the USA, that’s great. Maybe you should. But you’ve got two or three, four years to build it, which was what it would take. It would take a lot of money, very capital intensive.
Greg Shuey (30:00.405)
Yeah.
Greg Shugar (30:00.512)
And so you’d also have to start thinking about like your prices are gonna go up if you’re made in the USA. Labor’s more expensive, everything’s more expensive. You may still be paying tariffs on materials, fabrics, and goods. So like that was not really well thought out. And by the way, if the government also really believes in it, give some tax credits to companies that wanna build factories or some sort.
Greg Shuey (30:17.824)
No.
Greg Shuey (30:23.243)
Yep, some subsidies to help them get a factory.
Greg Shugar (30:26.306)
Yeah, give them some subsidies. So my biggest complaint right now, and I’ll end on this is, they’re talking about exemptions with Apple and Dell and computer products, all this stuff right now. How about exemptions for made in the USA companies like ours?
We’re exactly what they’re trying to promote. More made in the USA. OK, so if we import something from overseas, especially something I can’t get in the US like silk, how about we get an exemption for our products? And that way, you’ll encourage more made in the USA companies to pop up. By the way, if there were a silk fabric factory in the US, which there isn’t, but if there were, you better believe the silk would be a lot more expensive. And now I’m going to have to be selling a more expensive good. So the fact that they get it from China
Greg Shuey (31:07.681)
for sure.
Greg Shugar (31:11.95)
helps keep my prices down for customers. still can’t compete with companies that sell completely finished ties in China because those are inexpensive because of their labor, but at least I’m somewhat competitive when I could buy their fabric. So anyway, that’s 20 or 30 minutes of a soap box by me. I hope you enjoyed it.
Greg Shuey (31:24.597)
Yeah. it’s a mess.
Greg Shuey (31:32.895)
No, that was great. That helped me a lot. I think it’s also going to help our listeners a lot as well. So thank you so, so much for spending some time with us today.
Greg Shugar (31:41.886)
You’re welcome. And I suppose when I say I hope it doesn’t sound like I’m hating on America with some of my comments, I obviously love our country. I despise how this was handled. And I think the reason I despise it so much is because the people are being hurt the most are Americans. And I just wish that there would be more thought into the millions, literally the millions of business owners and their employees who are getting affected by all this right now.
Greg Shuey (32:07.713)
and the end customer. Everyone’s going to feel it. yep, I appreciate it. And so hopefully to our listeners, you’ve been able to take away a couple of really awesome nuggets and can start implementing those things and hope that you can all tune in again next time. So thank you everyone for joining.
Greg is the founder and CEO of Stryde and a seasoned digital marketer who has worked with thousands of businesses, large and small, to generate more revenue via online marketing strategy and execution. Greg has written hundreds of blog posts as well as spoken at many events about online marketing strategy. You can follow Greg on Twitter and connect with him on LinkedIn.
