Episode Summary
In this episode of the 7 Figures and Beyond podcast, Greg Shuey interviews Jonathan Johnson, the former chairman and CEO of Overstock.com. They delve into the importance and strategy behind building partnerships and alliances to accelerate direct-to-consumer (D2C) growth, especially in a challenging economic landscape. Johnson shares insights from his extensive experience at Overstock, emphasizing mutually beneficial partnerships that enhance brand awareness, strength, and customer trust. He provides real-life examples from Overstock’s history and offers guidance on identifying potential partners, pitching partnership proposals, and measuring the success of such collaborations.
Key Takeaways
- Mutually Beneficial Partnerships: Any successful partnership must be win-win, benefiting all parties involved. It’s essential to ensure that the collaboration meets the goals of both brands, whether that’s increased market share, brand awareness, or revenue.
- Increase Brand Awareness and Strength: Partnerships should aim to increase brand awareness and elevate the brand’s image. Examples include SMEG’s collaboration with Dolce & Gabbana, and GoPro with Red Bull, where the alliances boosted the brand visibility and aligned with the brand’s core values.
- Expand Demographics and Create Buzz: Collaborations can help brands reach new demographics or strengthen relationships with existing ones. Unique pairings like ELF Cosmetics with Liquid Death or Balenciaga with Crocs can create significant buzz, drawing attention and new customers to both brands.
- Consider Risks and Practicalities: When forming a partnership, assess the potential risks and the practical aspects of the collaboration, such as the complexity of integration, the duration of the partnership, and the logistical requirements. It’s crucial to weigh these factors against the potential benefits.
- Metrics for Success: Establish clear metrics to measure the success of the partnership from the outset. These can include sales growth, revenue, margin changes, new customer acquisition, customer affinity, conversion rates, and overall brand vitality.
Episode Links
Greg Shuey LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/greg-shuey/
Jonathan Johnson LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonathanjohnson3/
Episode Transcript
Greg Shuey (00:00.976)
Hey everyone, welcome to episode 35 of the Seven Figures and Beyond podcast. I hope everyone is absolutely crushing it today and driving a lot of traffic and revenue to their e -commerce site. Today, I’m really excited about our discussion. My guest, his name is Jonathan Johnson and he is the former chairman and CEO of Overstock .com.
And you were there for 20 years, 20ish years, right? It’s a long time.
Jonathan Johnson (00:32.945)
All right.
It was a long time and it was a good time. It was great.
Greg Shuey (00:38.672)
It was a good time. I mean, just growing up, I remember buying things from Overstock .com and it was so cool that it was here in our backyard right here in Utah. I loved it. So I was super excited to get the intro to you and to kind of have our initial discussions and for you being willing to jump on.
Jonathan Johnson (00:58.961)
You bet. Thank you, Greg. And thanks for being a customer for a long time.
Greg Shuey (01:03.216)
Heck yeah. So today we are going to be dissecting how to build partnerships and alliances in order to accelerate your D to C growth. And as I’m kind of sitting back and watching 2024 unfold, I’m seeing a lot of brands, not all of them, but a lot of brands struggle to even stay flat.
from where they were last year. They’ve got a lot of things working against them right now. We’ve got high inflation, consumer purchasing powers down. We’ve got an election year, which sometimes shakes things up from a consumer purchasing perspective. And it’s just a weird year for a lot of brands. And so this discussion is very timely and building these.
partnerships and these alliances with other businesses is a great way to tap into new audiences and to build new awareness for your brand and generate additional revenue. So again, Jonathan, thank you so much for taking time out of your busy schedule to be with us.
Jonathan Johnson (02:11.153)
Thank you, Greg.
Greg Shuey (02:12.752)
Awesome. So before we jump in, could you just take a few minutes and introduce yourself to our listeners and share a little bit about your history, your personal story and how you’ve gotten to where you are today.
Jonathan Johnson (02:26.129)
Yeah, sure, Greg, thank you. As you mentioned, I was with Overstock for over 21 and a half years. And I left last November after completing the purchase of the Bed Bath and Beyond’s name, intellectual property and customer lists and rebranding the parent company as Beyond. It was really a nice culmination of the work I’d done at Overstock.
Greg Shuey (02:53.264)
just cap it all off and sail off into the sunset.
Jonathan Johnson (02:57.297)
Well, sale or bike ride or something, but I’m glad I’m enjoying where I am now. While I was at Overstock, I had a lot of positions. As you noted, I was the chairman and CEO. I was the president. We’re of a operations role. I was the president of Medici Ventures, which was the company’s venture capital arm that invested in 21 startups using blockchain technology.
A long, long time ago, I was the general counsel of Overstock. I’m a &A attorney and corporate lawyer by training. So that’s how I joined. I was a legal department of one and ultimately morphed into business roles at Overstock.
Greg Shuey (03:37.04)
Wow.
Greg Shuey (03:46.128)
You had to learn really quick on the job.
Jonathan Johnson (03:49.329)
Yeah, there was, but you know, as a corporate lawyer and as an &A attorney, it wasn’t that foreign. I love doing deals. I love finding ways to make the business grow. I love seeing our community grow here in Salt Lake. I’ve been involved in the Utah Tech community since 1999. It’s been fun to be part of what has become what we now call Silicon Slopes.
Greg Shuey (03:56.848)
Okay.
Greg Shuey (04:18.96)
Yeah.
Jonathan Johnson (04:19.665)
One other thing, and you know, in addition to being on the Overstock board for 11 years, I’ve sat on the boards of directors of several startup companies, and I now sit on the board of directors of the J Smucker Company, a consumer packaged goods company with some really iconic brands like Hostess, Folgers, Dunkin’s, Dunkin, Milkbone, Jiff.
Greg Shuey (04:36.88)
Hmm.
Greg Shuey (04:42.)
Yeah.
Jonathan Johnson (04:48.273)
Meow, meow mix, and of course, Smuckers and my favorite snack, Uncrustables.
Greg Shuey (04:57.84)
They’re amazing, right?
Jonathan Johnson (04:59.505)
They’re amazing and they’re a quick source of energy. If I’m out riding my bike, nothing better than getting a crustable out of my back pocket and a little energy boost there.
Greg Shuey (05:11.344)
I had no idea they owned so many brands. That’s pretty cool.
Jonathan Johnson (05:15.217)
Yeah, it’s a it’s a and it’s fun to see how they work, how they collaborate. It’s been it’s been a learning experience for me. And I tell you one thing, I I like to learn and I if I hadn’t been a constant learner, I probably wouldn’t have had the success I had at Overstock. You know, when I was in school, e -commerce wasn’t a thing, just didn’t exist. I’m dating myself, obviously.
But learning about e -commerce helped me lead an e -commerce company. When I was the president of Overstock, blockchain and cryptocurrency weren’t a thing. And I learned a lot about those and later was able to be run our VC arm that worked in that. So I like to learn. And I think the best way to learn is to volunteer for new projects.
Greg Shuey (05:58.096)
Right. Yeah.
Greg Shuey (06:14.096)
Interesting.
Jonathan Johnson (06:14.097)
you know, raise your hand at the office, at your workplace and say, let me try something, you know, let me do it. And nothing focuses learning like trying to make a project successful or scalable or profitable. So that’s kind of who I am. And then on a personal note, my wife Courtney and I have five adult sons and now four young granddaughters. We’ve found the double X chromosome.
We’re holding on to it. So we like this pandemic.
Greg Shuey (06:45.168)
Sounds kind of like my family, all boys. And we’ve got a lot of granddaughters now. That’s pretty awesome. I love it. Yeah. Cool, cool. Well, that’s quite the history. You’ve got a lot of experience. So I’m excited to hear some of these things that you’ve done and some of these strategies that you’ve used to be able to help grow these businesses. So are you ready to jump in?
Jonathan Johnson (06:53.777)
Good!
Jonathan Johnson (07:14.193)
Always ready. Let’s talk business, Craig. It’s fun.
Greg Shuey (07:16.656)
Let’s talk. I love it. So for brands that are kind of new to the game and they’re starting to think about like, you know, do I trust going into a partnership with someone? Like what are some of the key benefits to going out and forming these types of relationships and alliances for brands?
Jonathan Johnson (07:40.081)
Well, I think first and foremost, any partnership, any alliance needs to be mutually beneficial for all of all. You can’t, things aren’t zero sum games. If it doesn’t create a win -win where both parties are either making money or gaining market share or doing whatever the goals of the partnership are, it’s not a partnership worth creating. And so don’t get
kind of into a deal and say, well, we were so far and then look at it and said, it’s not gonna work, but keep doing it. So my view is first look for a win -win deal and some of the wins and all this kind of six different areas where I think partnerships and alliances can work. Any of these six, I think, or multiple of these six, I think it makes sense.
first you have to look at is does the partnership or alliance increase awareness of your brand? You know, that’s what we’re trying to do with brands is we’re trying to get more people to know what they are and understand what they are. And sometimes increasing awareness is doing something a little funky, a little different. You know, I look at some of some of your listeners may be
Greg Shuey (08:46.096)
Okay.
Greg Shuey (09:01.68)
little weird.
Jonathan Johnson (09:07.633)
acquainted with SMEG. It’s an appliance company. They do toasters and kettles and juicers and things like that. They did a partnership with Dolce & Gabbana, a big fashion house. And you might say, what does a household appliance have to do with, you know, an Italian fashion brand? But they started making loud, colorful, expensive toasters, kettles, juicers, blenders.
And it worked. It worked for both. It helped Dolce & Gabbana expand who they are, bring their brand into the kitchen. And it helps Meg by saying, we’re more than just appliances. We’re fun. We’re exciting. We’re a fashion item for your kitchen. So I think it increased brand awareness.
Greg Shuey (09:56.752)
for your kid.
Interesting. I hadn’t seen that. That’s cool. I’m gonna have to go look that up.
Jonathan Johnson (10:04.561)
Yeah, look at that one. You know, a second place I think you need to look is, does the partnership or alliance strengthen or elevate the brand, what the brand stands for and means? And, you know, I think of what GoPro and Red Bull did together. Both those brands stand for pushing yourself, you know, getting more out of whatever you’re doing.
Greg Shuey (10:23.824)
Yeah. Yep.
Greg Shuey (10:30.736)
Fast and fun.
Jonathan Johnson (10:34.641)
And so that’s a real natural alliance between two brands that are doing the same thing. One that’s a little different there was IKEA. And Overstock had been in the furniture space for a long time, so I always watched what IKEA did. But they had a partnership with the streetwear designer, Virgil Leblos.
who went from doing streetwear to Louis Vuitton, and they did a limited edition furniture and rugs collaboration. Some of the things they did together was they did rugs based on the iconic IKEA receipt. You know, different. But I think it felt like streetwear meets Scandinavian furniture. And it…
Greg Shuey (11:22.832)
Yeah.
Jonathan Johnson (11:30.065)
It kind of took both of them forward. Wasn’t one you’d naturally say, these fit together like GoPro and Red Bull, but it elevated each of the brands and what they stood for.
Greg Shuey (11:44.592)
awesome. I love that.
Jonathan Johnson (11:46.865)
I think you need to look and see, will this grow your demographic? Either you increase sales with your existing demographic, or you’re going to help expand into a new or adjacent demographic. And one of the ones I really like here is what ELF Cosmetics has done with Liquid Death.
Greg Shuey (11:53.008)
That’s a big.
Greg Shuey (12:13.456)
Mm -hmm.
Jonathan Johnson (12:14.257)
might say, think, okay, liquid death kind of goth, you know, more elf, you know, is, is cosmetics, teen cosmetics, largely. But their demographics have a lot of overlap. And when they looked at it, they said, wait, we can, we can speak to more people in our age demographic. And so they dropped a corpse.
Greg Shuey (12:18.48)
two opposite ends of the spectrum.
Jonathan Johnson (12:42.993)
Hain vault of cosmetics. And you know, they had taglines like slay your look or drop dead gorgeous. And it was, you know, Elf is one of the masters in in alliances and doing things in partnership. This was one of their more successful ones. It really worked. And I think it said
Greg Shuey (13:09.008)
interesting.
Jonathan Johnson (13:12.209)
We’re both in the same younger demographic. Let’s try and exploit that. Let’s try and grow that in different ways. Taco Bell and Doritos. There’s probably a lot of us when we’ve had the munchies that has done nacho cheese Doritos Locos Tacos, you know? And that feels like the same demographic, but you know, before you heard it, you may not have put it naturally together.
Greg Shuey (13:19.376)
Yeah.
Yep.
Greg Shuey (13:29.808)
Yep.
Greg Shuey (13:40.784)
Yeah. Those are some great examples, like great examples.
Jonathan Johnson (13:42.513)
So does the partnership, does the alliance create buzz? And sometimes the one that create the most buzz are the most kind of almost oxymoronic. They don’t feel like they fit together. And an example of that is Balenciaga, which is a hundred plus year old French luxury
They partnered with Crocs. You just think, okay, Crocs, French luxury, I can’t think of anything that are far apart, but they put together a high -heeled black croc. Love it or hate it, it created, you know, it elicited a visceral reaction. There was a lot of buzz in the fashion world and life. Croc got the benefit of
Greg Shuey (14:17.2)
Hmm.
Jonathan Johnson (14:42.897)
Moving into a new space, more body.
What are you doing with brand trust and customer loyalty? You know, I mentioned I’m on the smucker board. They have both the Milk Bone brand and the Jif brand. Well, now there is a peanut butter flavored dog treat. Both those brands are really well trusted. You know, the old tag line from when I was growing up, choosy mothers choose Jif. Well, choosy pet owners are gonna choose Jif.
peanut butter flavored milk foam, not from Donald Trades. So brand trust, customer loyalty keeps building it. And then the last one I think you ought to focus on when you’re looking at these partnerships is do they excite and delight the customer? Right? Are you going to sell more? And a couple examples that I think about are Target and Lilly Pulitzer, who’s an American
Greg Shuey (15:19.28)
Yeah.
Greg Shuey (15:33.712)
Right.
Jonathan Johnson (15:46.993)
fashion designer and socialite plays into the Tarjay brand, right? It’s a little bit higher end even for a mass market. And together they developed 250 products that were so popular, excited and delighted the customers so much that they crashed the website. There were long queues outside of the Target stores. Exciting. You know, another one like that is
Greg Shuey (16:14.416)
Yeah.
Jonathan Johnson (16:16.785)
Clinique partnering with Crayola to do Crayola -inspired lipsticks. You can do the splash of color. That excites. That delights. So when I think about what makes a good partnership, a branding partnership, those are the things that I think of. Are you increasing brand awareness? Is it strengthening your brand?
Greg Shuey (16:26.832)
I have not seen that one either.
Jonathan Johnson (16:46.161)
Are you growing your demographic? Are you creating buzz, building trust and customer loyalty, or exciting and delighting your customers?
Greg Shuey (16:55.76)
Those are all great, great benefits. And that kind of springs us into the next question here is, since we’ve talked about all these cool different partnerships, do you have any that you can share that you did while at Overstock?
Jonathan Johnson (17:09.457)
Well, yeah, there’s several. I’ll start by going by jumping in the way back machine. And when I was brand new at Overstock, I’d been there about three months and a request for a proposal came across my desk as the lawyer to kind of mark up the contract and Palm, which was the maker of Palm Pilot, which that’s the way back machine.
Greg Shuey (17:28.624)
Mm -hmm.
Greg Shuey (17:36.144)
Long time ago. Yeah.
Jonathan Johnson (17:37.361)
Before smartphones, people carried around a personal digital assistant that has everything and less than we have in our smartphone today, right? But Poland was trying to figure out a better way to take care of their scratch and dent and return products. They have been selling them on eBay and weren’t really pleased with the return on investment they were getting. So they were doing an RFP and overstock.
jumped into this and we said, look, we think we can do this well. And we’ll create a special home page on our electronic section of our site. We’ll do the testing for the return products to make sure that they’re truly refurbished and they work. And we wound up winning the RFP. We had a bake off against eBay. We won. And that became kind of
Greg Shuey (18:30.512)
Mm -hmm.
Jonathan Johnson (18:34.321)
the driver of a growing piece of our electronics business because people came and found something that they were looking for at a great price helped our brand because we were fledgling getting into electronics and it helped their brand because they were able to liquidate product they needed to liquidate. So that was that was one from the early days. Later on, as our product categories expanded and we were into
Greg Shuey (18:37.136)
Hmm.
Jonathan Johnson (19:04.913)
pet products is part of what we were growing into. We did a partnership with the Humane Society where for people who wanted to adopt a pet, they could come to all places, the Overstock site, type in their zip code and they could see dogs and cats, horses, all kinds of different pets that they could adopt from the local chapter of the Humane Society. And you might think, gee, what?
What business does Overstock have being in the pet adoption business? Not even smelling pets, helping them get adopted. But of course we sold pet clothes, we sold pet toys, you know, all these things. And sales in peripheral pet things boosted. It was good.
Greg Shuey (19:37.264)
for selling pets.
Greg Shuey (19:56.016)
because you built the brand awareness and you tied it to a pet. Yeah, I like that.
Jonathan Johnson (19:57.937)
Good job, and we’re gonna end the video.
And it felt like something different. And it brought in a different demographic of customer pet lovers who we were trying to core with products. Another partnership that built in a different brand of different demographic of customers was when Overstock started accepting Bitcoin as a payment method. So this was 2014. No major retailer had started accepting Bitcoin as payment.
Greg Shuey (20:20.784)
Hmm.
Jonathan Johnson (20:30.769)
We like the underlying technology. We like to have people spend their money no matter what kind of money it is on our site. So we partnered with Coinbase, the wallet that was dealing in Bitcoin, and we started accepting Bitcoin as a form of payment. And it opened us up to a whole new demographic of customers. Younger, more male, more techie, and those became very loyal customers.
Greg Shuey (20:52.944)
Interesting.
Jonathan Johnson (21:00.625)
because they were Bitcoin enthusiasts, crypto enthusiasts. And for a retailer to recognize them, they would come and they have to buy bed sheets and couches and things like that. And that’s what we sold. And it was a great partnership for us.
Greg Shuey (21:20.144)
That’s wild. Interesting. Very cool. I like that. Those are some great examples. So let’s maybe shift gears here really quick and let’s talk about how to get started. So when brands start looking at a potential partner, someone that they’d like to do some business with, what are some of the things that they should be looking for that says this is a good partner or things that are like setting off the Spidey senses?
turn and run, like what are some of those things?
Jonathan Johnson (21:53.297)
Yeah. So I mean, as I mentioned earlier, you got to figure out what’s the win -win. You know, if we’re doing a partnership together, I can usually come up with the reason I want to do it. But why would you want to do it with me? And, you know, if I can come up with a win -win, that’s the beginning of a pitch. That’s the beginning of discussions. What does each brand offer? Where’s the alignment?
Greg Shuey (22:15.568)
Got it.
Jonathan Johnson (22:22.033)
Where’s the relevance? Sometimes you don’t see alignment or relevance until you look a little deeper. Think of elf and liquid death. Not necessarily on the top, but when you look at the demographic, there’s the alignment. There’s the relevance. How hard is the collaboration going to be? You know, I think about when Overstock
Greg Shuey (22:37.968)
Hmm.
Jonathan Johnson (22:48.401)
reached out to the Humane Society and had this discussion. It required a fair amount of development work so we could geolocate where the customer was, geolocate where the Humane Society centers were and what they had, right? It wasn’t in our inventory. So how hard is it going to be and what’s it going to require?
Greg Shuey (22:55.824)
Yeah.
Greg Shuey (23:06.992)
and then what they have.
Jonathan Johnson (23:16.849)
What’s the timing and the length of the partnership or the promotion? You know, a lot of these today are done as one -time drops. That’s a pretty easy thing to do once you figure out how are we going to manufacture it together. It doesn’t have to be a long campaign. It can be a one -time drop. But you might want a longer partnership. How long is the Doritos Tacos Locos Nachos going to be in?
Greg Shuey (23:25.648)
Yeah, right.
Jonathan Johnson (23:47.217)
stores, right? What’s the, what are the logistics for that? So there’s, it’s, it’s not just what does the marketing team say, it’s, okay, but there’s supply chain and everybody, merchandising, everybody else.
Greg Shuey (23:48.176)
Right.
So many moving parts.
Jonathan Johnson (24:06.705)
What you got to get press, your PR team involved. What’s the press in the go -to -market strategy? If it’s a drop, nothing worse than a dead drop. So are you using press? Are you using social media? How is this collaboration, how is the buzz going to be created? And then I think you always have to think about what are the risks? What are the…
Greg Shuey (24:08.56)
Yep.
Greg Shuey (24:34.512)
Yeah.
Jonathan Johnson (24:36.657)
potential negatives for your brand, which you’re being so careful about, being associated with another brand, which you know some of the things about, but you may not know everything about. And so I think you have to think about the risks. So look for the win -win. What do you offer each other? How hard are you going to be to work together? What are the risks? And once you decide, how long are we working together and how are we
doing a dual marketing push on this.
Greg Shuey (25:09.296)
Yep, I like that. And I like that you bring up risks as well, because I think people get so excited and almost like the blinders go up, right? And it’s almost like you don’t even think about what could potentially go wrong because you’re just so excited to get this thing done and start the process. That’s great. Thank you.
Jonathan Johnson (25:28.177)
When you get excited about something, you just want to go, go, go. And that’s good. You should have that enthusiasm and that excitement. But you also have to say, where does this backfire on us? What are the unintended consequences of being together?
Greg Shuey (25:45.968)
that awesome. So when a brand wants to go pitch a partnership proposal to another business, what’s that process look like and how can they do it most effectively?
Jonathan Johnson (26:02.225)
Well, you need to know what you’re bringing to the table. Anytime you’re pitching, you’re going to someone and you’re saying, we think this is going to be good for you. And I think their natural reaction is going to be, don’t know, don’t know, maybe not. I’ve heard that before. I’ve never thought of the two of us together. So I think you have to think about what are you bringing to the table? And I would talk about bringing your love of both brains.
Greg Shuey (26:15.632)
Or I’ve heard that before.
Jonathan Johnson (26:32.177)
Of course you love your own brand, but make sure you love the brand that you’re pitching to and explain why you love it. Bring your demographic. Explain, look, this is what we’re bringing to the table. These are the types of customers that together we’re gonna access. Everyone’s looking for more customers or more allegiance from their current customer. If you can bring your demographic, that’s a big thing.
bring your manufacturing plant. You know, I can’t imagine.
what Crocs went to when they’re talking to a French designer. We don’t sell high heels. Here’s how we’re going to do it. Here’s our vision, but from a storyboard to a product on a shelf, there’s a lot of manufacturing and can your teams do it together? You’re in your marketing plan. Here’s what we want to do.
Greg Shuey (27:18.352)
Here’s how we’re gonna do it.
Greg Shuey (27:34.544)
Yeah.
Jonathan Johnson (27:39.281)
we can help grow your brand. Of course, you’ll be asking them to help them grow your brand, but lead with what you bring to the table. And most importantly, bring your excitement. Right? I mean, if you’re going to do something together, if you’re going to be married even for a short time, be as excited as the day you proposed.
I’m just, let’s do this thing.
Greg Shuey (28:11.6)
Yep, I like that actually a lot. Without the excitement, it’s just kind of like a wah -wah.
Jonathan Johnson (28:19.633)
I mean, if it gets to be transactional, it’s not going to create the buzz, the excitement, the loyalty, these things that make partnerships work. Transactional agreements work sometimes, but it’s not right for the partnership or the collaboration.
Greg Shuey (28:39.792)
There has to be a level of excitement that is maintained throughout. That’s a great tip.
Jonathan Johnson (28:42.161)
Yeah.
Jonathan Johnson (28:46.897)
The other thing I think you have to bring is how are we going to measure success? Let’s come up with this list. I know that’s one of the things we’re going to want to talk about. But if you can lead in with here’s how we’re measuring success, maybe those are metrics they care about. And if they do care about them, they’ll probably start thinking, we’ve got to do this together.
Greg Shuey (29:07.792)
We’re aligned, yeah. Yep. So let’s talk about metrics. What are some of those metrics that you should be monitoring on both sides of the table to say that this was successful?
Jonathan Johnson (29:22.673)
Well, there’s a lot of different metrics you can look at. And I think the important thing about metrics is that you agree on the ones you want to measure ahead of time.
Don’t, you know, have a target and shoot for it. Don’t shoot your arrow and draw a target around.
Greg Shuey (29:41.776)
change the rules halfway through.
Jonathan Johnson (29:43.601)
Don’t change the rules. And so different metrics you should consider. For sales going to increase, is revenue up? I mean, that seems like a really basic one. Is the margin on this product higher, lower? Do we want to run this at a little bit higher margin? Because we’re getting a high end luxury brand name with us. How are we going to measure?
the hype or the headlines? You know, is it social media interaction? Is it speed of the drop being sold out? You know, the drop is sold out in two minutes. That’s probably a winner. That’s if that’s what you’re, you know, but some things that’s not relevant, you know, but where’s the hype? Where’s the headlines? I think you got to look at new customers. If part of the goal is to expand your demographics.
Greg Shuey (30:28.975)
Pretty good.
Jonathan Johnson (30:43.665)
Are we just selling to our current customer base? Or do we get somebody new? Or are we getting customers that haven’t been here in a while coming back? So there’s a lot of ways you can look around customers, but that’s whichever way you choose, that should be your measure. You should look at customer affinity and conversion.
Greg Shuey (30:55.92)
Are we reactivating old customers?
Jonathan Johnson (31:09.073)
Is your conversion rate particularly for if you’re e -commerce, which is the world I lived in, do people come to the site and linger on it and leave and come back? And is it, they have to look at that product page 10 times before buying, or do they see it and they say, I need that. Click there, click the add to cart, click the buy button. You know, how quick is the conversion? Is the conversion higher than your other products that you sell?
And then I think, and this is amorphous, but I think there are ways to measure it. Have you brought new life to your brand? You know, are you getting a little stale? Look, I think with pet adoptions, we brought a whole new group of people that breathe some new life into a portion of our product categories. You know, it didn’t do much for jewelry and watches, but it did breathe new life into our
Greg Shuey (31:42.928)
Hmm.
Greg Shuey (31:47.056)
Yeah.
Greg Shuey (31:58.192)
Yeah.
Jonathan Johnson (32:06.737)
pet products, actually. So I think a lot of different metrics you can measure. I think it’s really important to say, these are the ones that I like and that we want to measure this collaboration on. Yeah.
Greg Shuey (32:06.992)
to do pet business.
Greg Shuey (32:21.808)
and agree between both parties that they are the core metrics. Yep. Cool. Those were some awesome tips and ideas. So as we’re starting to wrap up here, I mean, I started off talking about how weird of a year it’s been so far. From an outsider’s perspective, I mean, you said, you know, you’re on a board, you interact with a lot of different brands. So you’re seeing a lot of different things happening.
Where do you see things going for the rest of this year and next year? Do you have any predictions?
Jonathan Johnson (32:57.457)
always dangerous to make predictions. But it’s always fun to make predictions because you have a take, you have a take, right? And very rarely do people come back and grade you on your predictions. That’s probably what we ought to do more frequently. But you know, look, the consumer economy is tough right now. The cost of inputs is up and continues, you know, it’s creating price inflation. Consumers,
Greg Shuey (32:59.152)
Greg Shuey (33:03.76)
You have a take, yep.
Jonathan Johnson (33:26.001)
are, I don’t know, in a post -COVID funk, in part because of COVID pull forward in some categories like furniture and other things. Interest rates seem to be stuck. And I think that’s particularly hurt companies in the housing and housing related industries. Regulation is up. Hiring seems to have slowed. So I think…
You know, you mentioned the election, there’s uncertainty there. I think the consumer economy will stay tough to the rest of the year. I just think 2024 is a look.
Greg Shuey (34:03.024)
Yeah.
Jonathan Johnson (34:09.009)
cinch up your belt, work hard, do the best you can, but know that all this hard work today pays off. So that’s a lot of doom and gloom, but there is upside. There is upside, you know. The stock market, 401ks are growing, technology is advancing. I mean, there’s AI, there’s a lot of dry powder and investment cash sitting on the sidelines.
Greg Shuey (34:23.92)
Yeah.
Jonathan Johnson (34:38.385)
And so I think with just a little bit of good news, a lot of that money gets off the sidelines and spurs the economy. And as I mentioned earlier, I’m an old &A guy. I believe with increased investment, job markets improve, consumers don’t get as skittish. And so I’m looking for things to really improve in the second half.
You know, I think first half will have our election and may create a bunch of change in January. It may not, you know, but I think by the second half of next year, there’ll be some good news in the market. Money will free up. When money frees up, it’s like the oil in an engine. The economy just runs smoother.
Greg Shuey (35:30.896)
Yep. Lubricates it and it runs just a lot better. So yeah, I mean, I’m, I’m kind of right there with you as well. I think that that’s going to happen as well. It’s going to be a little bit more expensive this year to run a business. Customer acquisition costs are going to be up a little bit buying cycles. Customer journeys are going to be stretched out just a little bit, but, there’s still business to be had this year. I think that, that’s.
Jonathan Johnson (35:35.185)
Yeah.
Jonathan Johnson (35:58.193)
Yes, yes. And by the way, any investments, any hard work people do today pays off when the economy gets a little more chipper. You can’t just hunker down. You got to, like I say, plow forward. It works.
Greg is the founder and CEO of Stryde and a seasoned digital marketer who has worked with thousands of businesses, large and small, to generate more revenue via online marketing strategy and execution. Greg has written hundreds of blog posts as well as spoken at many events about online marketing strategy. You can follow Greg on Twitter and connect with him on LinkedIn.
